354K views 4 years ago In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves reviews the SIG MCX Rattler, a 5.5" PDW in .300BLK that has been purchased for US SOCOM evaluation. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Thanks for opening my eyes. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. He called it a stutter. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Keep Reading. When I saw it, I wanted to hate it, specifically for what it isnt. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. Thanks Bio. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) I would deploy this as a dedicated entry rifle in a heartbeat. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. Targets left and center showed four A-zone hits, but one shot on each target was outside of the A-zone. We really liked the handguard. Brand: Springfield. This article on theSIG MCX Rattler is from the May/June 2018 issue of Tactical Life magazine. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! It was too short. Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. With the desire for a more up-to-date AR-15, we went shopping and found that we didnt have to break the bank just get comfortable within a price range of about $900 to $1250 dollars. Introduced in 2015, the MCX is essentially a larger, rifle-caliber version of Sig Sauers pistol-caliber MPX. Its very handy. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? Is the Rattler a precision instrument? PDW stands for personal defense weapon. It is not a term that Springfield Armory invented. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Matte Black. The companys thinking must be a suppressor is going on there anyway, so cut costs with the standard muzzle device. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. But thats not really new, either. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Learn how your comment data is processed. Honey badger .300bo 5. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. They are dead to me. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. Compare. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. I cant understand that. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. So after that day it was on my dream list . Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. But if you want range, get a longer-barreled rifle with a slower twist rate to optimize 125-grain loads. I used two suppressors with the Rattler. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . Your welcome BET7, I've looked at the Christensen Arms and pretty sweet , Also was dead set on getting a Danial defense DD4 after shooting it at the expo , but didn't . Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) On the M400, there is an extension that adds surface area in an L-shape, making it much easier to operate. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. The gas block is pinned in place. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM was best, producing 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM ammunition produced an average five-shot group measuring 0.9 inch across. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. (Tie) B&T .45 2. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . A forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles owners and enthusiasts. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. Although the drill was shot cold, we couldnt help but be more warmed up by the time we reached the third gun. then they had the new CZ 75 Tactical Sport 2 Blue in $1,699 . Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Though its important to enter this aspect of the cartridge with eyes wide open. Cookie Notice S pringfield Armory rocked the firearms community with the introduction of the SAINT rifle in 2016. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. At the rear of the receiver, youll see the Maxim Defense SCW brace. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. . The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. All Rights Reserved. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. It is everywhere and inexpensive, especially when compared to those two boutique cartridges. The buttplate had a thin rubber pad smoothly integrated; it was more friendly to clothing or bare skin for that matter. As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. The bottom line? But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. models. To order a copy and subscribe, visitoutdoorgroupstore.com. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. I really liked the Blue TS2 ,so in the end she was getting one for me for a surprise for my birthday . Ive tested full-size rifles that werent any more accurate than that. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. Will it perform at greater distances? 300 AAC Blackout. So these two were on my list . Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . I'll go with the Sig and do those upgrades for sure. The only upgrade we spied was a relief in the takedown pin that helps keep the punch, or bullet tip, from sliding off under pressure. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. and our I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Springfield has made some shitty moves in the past but they make an amazing AR. So, I spread the wealth equally. View Product. Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. Please give me your thoughts and opinions! I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. MSRP: $700; palmettostatearmory.com, Good advice on the 300 blk pistols Anybody not owning a 300 blk should consider getting one Im 66 years young, big fan of 270,300 magnum but this 300 blk up to 150 yards is great . And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. As was the case with the M400 Classic, the front sight was not visible with the Tango4 optical scope mounted. The Judge has been promoted! Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Full Member. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. The other rifles did not suffer this complaint. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition.